Date of Interview: 03/27/2013

© 2013 Clayton Perry

Ted Gioia is a pianist, music historian, and one of the founders of the jazz studies program at Stanford Univeristy. The New York Times has named two of his works notable books of the year: The History of Jazz (1997) and Delta Blues (2009). Gioia is also the author of West Coast Jazz, Work Songs, Healing Songs and The Birth (and Death) of the Cool.

In promotional support of The Jazz Standards: A Guide to the Repertoire (Oxford University Press: July 6, 2012), Ted Gioia spoke with Clayton Perry about the evolution of music criticism, defining moments in jazz history, and the importance of music education.

Clayton Perry:  At what point did you realize your penchant for writing?

Ted Gioia:  I always loved writing, and even created make-believe newspapers during idle hours when I was in elementary school.  I had a buddy with similar interests, and instead of passing notes back and forth in class, we exchanged imitation news articles.   It sounds strange in retrospect, but seemed like a perfectly natural thing to do at the time.  You’ve got to remember that we didn’t have text messaging back then.

Clayton Perry:  When did you start writing for publication?

Ted Gioia:  I had a great high school journalism teacher, Konnie Krislock, and I made my first faltering steps as a journalist under her direction as editor of my high school newspaper. I also wrote occasional movie reviews for my hometown newspaper—you know the kind of paper they give away for free, and still no one wants to take it? Later I contributed regularly to the college newspaper at Stanford and during my senior year I got enlisted as a paid contributor to the Palo Alto Times.  I was hired by a fellow named Paul Emerson who, in a strange quirky situation, died three days after he brought me on board.  His last act as an editor was to transform me from an amateur to a professional writer.  My pay was seven dollars per article.  But that was seven dollars more than I had ever been paid before for an article.  God bless Mr. Emerson!  I also edited the Stanford literary magazine during my last two years on campus, which gave me insights into the construction of poetry and fiction.   And, of course, I was learning how to write in the classroom too. I look back with some embarrassment at much of what I wrote during this period, but these experiences were invaluable in teaching me the rudiments of the writer’s craft.

Clayton Perry:  What led you down the path of jazz music criticism?

Ted Gioia:  I started writing jazz reviews for The Stanford Daily as a ruse for getting free jazz albums from record labels.  I was on a very tight student budget, and I couldn’t afford to buy these recordings.  But because I was a reviewer, I got them for free, and also got free tickets to concerts and jazz clubs.   I thought that was a very sweet deal! I didn’t realize for a long time that I was turning into a jazz writer.  During this same period, I was studying literature, philosophy, sociology, art history and other liberal arts subjects—first at Stanford and later at Oxford—and my goal was to become, in my own fumbling and stumbling kind of way, a cultural or literary critic in the mold of Susan Sontag, George Steiner or Lionel Trilling.  My first book, The Imperfect Art, was a work of cultural criticism about jazz—at least, that’s what I thought it was.  In my head, I saw as my goal (perhaps unachievable, but when you’re young that doesn’t stop you) as doing for jazz what Sontag had done for photos in her book On Photography or akin to Roger Scruton’s The Aesthetics of Architecture.  As a result my debut book was a strange hybrid, sort of a cross between Wittgenstein and Lester Bangs. But my editor, Sheldon Meyer of Oxford University Press, saw me as a jazz writer, not a cultural critic.  With his encouragement, I chose to write a history of West Coast jazz for my second book.   After that, there was no turning back: I was considered a music writer, not a cultural critic.  Also, I started recording albums as a jazz pianist around this time, and that seemed to seal the deal.  I have still occasionally returned to cultural and literary criticism, but to most of my readers, I am a music writer and always will be.  Hey, it’s still a sweet deal.

Clayton Perry:  What do you think have been the most drastic changes in the field of music journalism, for better or for worse?

Ted Gioia:  The business model for music journalism has been broken.  I was lucky to get into the field when it was still flourishing, more or less. Nowadays, writers are expected to give away their writing for free—and once they go down that path, it’s hard for them to change the ground rules.  But there’s a problem with the disappearance of the professional critic.  As the saying goes, you get what you pay for.  What was once a profession is turning into a hobby, with the standards of hobbyists prevailing in most instances. Of course, the dedicated few will still treat it as a serious profession, and put in the care and study it takes to become a first-rate critic.  But there is no guarantee that they will be able to earn a living wage doing this, no matter how skilled they are.

Clayton Perry:  In ten words or less, define “jazz” music?

Ted Gioia:  I’ll just quote Louis Armstrong who, when asked that same question, said: “If you have to ask, you’ll never know.”

Clayton Perry:  Historically, what function/purpose has jazz music served over time?

Ted Gioia:  Jazz’s role has changed over time.  At the very beginning, you might have called jazz a type of folk music.  Later it became the most popular form of commercial music in America.  More recently, it has turned into a type of art music.  The practitioners have also changed. Jazz was introduced by African-Americans.  Then it gained adherents among other ethnic and racial groups in the US.  Nowadays it flourishes all over the world.

Clayton Perry:  What do you consider to be three defining moments in jazz music’s storied history?

Ted Gioia:  Let me start with 1923.  Before 1923, very few of the leading jazz bands made recordings.  But after that point, the work of the major performers in the art form was preserved for later generations.  The next milestone came in the mid-1930s, when the music of the swing jazz bands was adopted by the youth of America.  Jazz became the most popular music in the US, and that continued for another 10-15 years.   Then, in the years following World War II, jazz musicians increasingly embraced modernist and experimental techniques.  Modern jazz was born and, as a result, the 1950s and 1960s marked a period of great creativity and artistry in jazz.  But, sad to say, these very advances led to a shrinkage in the jazz audience.  We are still living with the repercussions of that third shift.

Clayton Perry:  On July 6, 2012, Oxford University Press released your critically-acclaimed book, The Jazz Standards: A Guide to Repertoire. One of my favorite songs – “My Funny Valentine” – is featured in the book. My initial introduction to the song was Chaka Khan’s rendition on the Waiting to Exhale (1995) soundtrack. From Broadway to Miles Davis to Chaka Khan, what makes this song “timeless”?

Ted Gioia:  The best jazz songs usually have something quirky or complex about them.  “My Funny Valentine” is no exception.  It’s both a tender song and a cruel song—the lyrics make some scathing comment about how funny this valentine lover really is.  But you can’t just bring out the harshness in the lyrics.  A jazz musician needs to evoke the tender, heartfelt qualities too.  A song with such paradoxical ingredients is rich with possibilities.   As a result, jazz musicians can play it again and again, over a period of decades, without exhausting its expressive qualities.  And though it might seem strange to combine the cruel and the tender, to some extent all jazz does that.

Clayton Perry:  Jazz instrumentalists tend to be better known than versus jazz vocalists. Why is this the case? In the context of jazz, is one’s “voice” not an instrument?

Ted Gioia:  I would flip the question around and ask why there are so few instrumentals in rock music?  Or country music?  Or in other forms of popular music?  I think jazz has the balance rights, and the other genres are imbalanced.  I suspect that jazz record sales over the last couple decades represent a fairly even split between instrumental music and vocal music.  You need to remember that Norah Jones’s debut CD sold more than 25 million copies, and Diana Krall, Jamie Cullum and a bunch of other jazz singers also sell in large quantities.  If vocal jazz isn’t half of the jazz market, it must be close to that level.  Why don’t we see that in rock or pop?  Perhaps it’s because bands in these other genres don’t have the same musicianship that we find in jazz, and thus lack the skill needed to pull off all-instrumental tracks.

Clayton Perry:  You mention Norah Jones 2002 release Come Away with Me. The record – a fusion of jazz, pop and country music – garnered five GRAMMY Awards, including “Album of the Year.” A decade later, in 2011, Esperanza Spalding – a jazz bassist and singer – would win the GRAMMY Award for “Best New Artist” following the release of Chamber Society Music (2010). Briefly examine the careers of both women and place them within a historical context.

Ted Gioia:  I believe that jazz music benefits by having a close relationship and ongoing dialogue with the popular music of the day.  Both Norah Jones and Esperanza Spalding are trying to do that, and both have had some success.  I applaud their efforts, but I would urge both of them to focus on the artistic potential of mixing jazz and popular music, rather than chasing after the commercial potential.  Some may think that there is only a small difference between those two stances, but I disagree. If you are looking to raise your artistry to a higher level, you will approach the fusion of jazz and popular music in a much different way than if your goal is just to squeeze some more sales out of the trendy sound du jour.

Clayton Perry:  The Roots are a GRAMMY-Award-winning hip-hop band. Their musical work includes live instrumentals and incorporates elements of jazz. What thoughts do you have on the intersection and relationship between jazz and hip-hop music?

Ted Gioia:  I believe that we are still in the early stages of creating a true dialogue between jazz and hip-hop.  I would stress that any winning formula needs to draw on the spontaneity and rich musical techniques of jazz.  As you note, the live instrumentals are an essential part of process. Just sampling a jazz riff on your hip-hop album doesn’t do it for me.

Clayton Perry:  What is the value/importance of music education?

Ted Gioia:  You don’t need to be an aspiring musician to benefit from music studies.  The experts tell us that people do better at math, languages and other subjects as a result of the discipline of studying music.  Also, as someone who cares deeply about music, I believe that we need a knowledgeable audience.  It’s no coincidence that a huge portion of the people attending jazz concerts and buying jazz CDs have studied music themselves.  These people are more sophisticated and knowledgeable consumers of music because of this background.  I suspect that a large percentage of my readers have studied music, and many have performed at a semi-professional or professional level.  This keeps me honest.  You can’t con these people because they know enough about music to see through the endless hyping of the ‘flavor of the month’—which accounts for a huge portion of the music criticism published nowadays—and can tell the real from the sham. When I write, I keep those kind of readers in mind, and work hard to earn their trust.

Clayton Perry:  What is the value/importance of including “jazz” in music education?

Ted Gioia:  Jazz is important from a historical perspective, because of its central role in the evolution of modern American music.  But it’s also valuable to study because of its emphasis on improvisation and instrumental proficiency. Yet I think another reason might be the most important of all.  Jazz is worth studying because the music is fun and smart and creative, and our lives are richer if we learn how to appreciate its beauties.

Clayton Perry:  What popular stereotypes are associated with jazz music? What are their origin?

Ted Gioia:  Well, it’s simply not true that jazz musicians are hipsters or drug addicts.  Yes, there were well publicized situations from the past that have given that music this kind of reputation. But things have changed. Probably a new stereotype of jazz is emerging, one that portrays the music as cerebral and academic.  That view also may be less than ideal, but perhaps it represents a slight improvement in the public’s perception of the art form.  Better to be a nerd than a druggie, huh?  But we would be better off if we put all these stereotypes aside, and learned to listen to jazz without preconceived notions of what it should be or how it should sound.

For more information on Ted Gioia, visit his official website: http://www.tedgioia.com

Date of Interview: 03/01/2013

© 2013 Clayton Perry

The music of Allen Stone pulsates with new millennium blues and reverberates with Gospel-infused fervor. On his self-titled debut, the rough, jagged and smooth contours of adolescent and young adult life are reflected in a free-flowing, introspective sea of sonic tales. Although born-and-raised in Chewelah, Washington, Stone’s music is “univer-soul” – tackling the highs and lows everyone must face along Life’s journey.

In the midst of extensive international touring, Allen Stone managed to squeeze some time out of his busy schedule and settle down for an interview with Clayton Perry – reflecting upon 20′s angst, “Satisfaction,” and pre-recorded music.

Clayton Perry:  As the son of a preacher, you performed regularly in church. What professional lessons did you pull from that experience and transfer to your secular career?

Allen Stone:  Oh, goodness. I think the biggest trait that was passed on to me from my parents and my dad was love and respect, and taking the time out of your day to appreciate others. I think what people don’t understand is that the music industry, and the success that you have in it is based about 15 percent or 20 percent on actual talent and about 80 percent on your personality, how nice you are, and whether or not you respect the people around you and treat them with care. I see a lot of the artists that die out. You hear a lot of horror stories about them not being very nice people. As lame as it may sound and as contrived as it may seem, being nice really is the biggest asset you can have in the music industry—caring about people for more than just what they can do for you. Does that make sense?

Clayton Perry:  Yes.

Allen Stone:  After the gig, I always go to the merch table. I talk, and I greet, and I meet everybody that comes there. I go around to the whole staff at the venue and thank them for having me. I try to make them feel that I care for them. I believe that that’s where actual joy is—that riches exist within relationships with people. But I believe that it also can get you a long way in life, just taking time out of your day to care for others.

Clayton Perry:  You note that character has made you successful up to this point, but you do have talent. You sing. You write songs. You play the guitar. Talk to me about your relationship with your father. What role did your relationship, both inside and outside the church, play in identifying your talents and how they sprouted?

Allen Stone:  I always loved to sing. I was forced into singing, a little bit, just because my parents both sang. I remember growing up. My brothers, sisters, parents and I would all do special songs on Christmas for the church. We’d sing together as a family. I wasn’t that into it when I was really young, but I knew I could do it. I knew I could sing. I knew I understood pitch and melody. When I was about ten or eleven, my dad taught me some guitar chords, because I had started getting really into the Dave Matthews band and rock ‘n’ roll music. It was the guitar playing that sparked my interest for singing in front of people. I had always loved song, but being able to pick up a guitar and play my own songs, or play covers of other songs, was really interesting and intriguing to me. It grew from there. I started writing my own songs on the guitar. I started singing them at services and school. At campfires and parties. I don’t know. I was always a drama brat growing up, and I was also the youngest child. I think I liked to be the center of attention… [laughing]

Clayton Perry:  [laughing]

Allen Stone:  …the center of attention syndrome. If I’m honest with you, I think music was just another form for me to be the center of attention. [laughing continues] But once I discovered soul music, Stevie Wonder and Marvin Gaye’s “What’s Going On,” it changed from just solely wanting to be the center of attention. It turned into something bigger. It turned into: “Wow! This music really touches me, and I’d really like to create the type of music that does this to other people.” It took a different form after a little while. I’ve never taken a vocal lesson. I’ve never taken a music lesson. Well, no. I lie about that. I did take a couple of piano lessons when I was about seventeen. But it was never pulled out of me, and I was never forced into it beyond my just singing when I was a little kid. It’s always been something that I really loved. And in high school, I never revealed it very much to any of my friends. I sang at church, and led worship at church, but none of my friends from high school went to my church [laughing]. I never really knew that I could sing. It’s funny now, when I’m popping up on all these late-night shows. They all know that that’s what I’m doing now, but none of them really had any idea that I was that serious about it.

Clayton Perry:  It is interesting to discover you were introduced to soul music rather late in your life. Soul music, like Gospel, tends to always have a message in the music. Many of your songs incorporate a theme of social awareness, even if it might not necessarily be directly religious. As your career expanded from the local community to the national spotlight and now international markets, what do you find the purpose of music to be? What power do you see it having?

Allen Stone:  For me, I think music is one of the most powerful forms of art that we’ve been given. Music is the universal language of energy. I can listen to somebody sing in French, and even though I have no idea what they’re saying, it will move me so deeply just feeling the expression that they have. For me, I think music can be extremely powerful, but I think music can also be extremely detrimental. I won’t name names of artists or music on the opposite end of that spectrum, but I think you can see how powerful music is by the reaction of fans. Look at fans of Justin Bieber.

Clayton Perry:  As you write the lyrics to what are deeply personal songs, do you ever consider how they will be interpreted by listeners? The breakdown on “Sleep,” for example, could be interpreted as a lesson of warning to your fans. At the end, you sing the following lines: “Count sheep, I’ve already tried, Drink whiskey, It makes my throat too dry, Smoke weed, It makes my eyes all red, Take a pill, Al, What, and end up dead?” I wonder if there is an undergirding philosophy to your songwriting, or whether this is just you pouring your heart out?

Allen Stone:  For me, I don’t want to put out music that I’ll turn back and think: “I hate that song.” I never want to create music that I’ll look back on, in years, and think: “That’s just a waste of time. That’s a waste of three minutes of my life.” I always want to say something that’s either very true to my life at that time, or is socially progressive. I have a song on that record called “The Wind,” which is a love song that I wrote. And I don’t typically write love songs, but when I wrote that song, it was very true to my spirit. I wrote it for a girl that I was in love with, and it was about allowing life to take you where it leads, just like the wind blows seeds wherever they’re supposed to land. With “Sleep,” it was the same way. When I wrote that song, I was on the road for close to 200 shows a year, and I wasn’t sleeping at all. I still don’t sleep very much, but I’m getting a little bit more now than I used to and I felt like it was a universal thing, too. We live in a day and age that is so fast, and we have so much stimulant. That’s the one thing that we don’t do is sleep, as a culture, and especially Americans. There’s so much stimulation. There are so many things to do nowadays, that people just don’t sleep very often—at least the people I’m surrounded by. I felt like it was a pretty universal topic, and something that was definitely true to my own life.

Clayton Perry:  You speak about the incessant touring. I know that it can wear and tear down not just the body, but also the mind. I’m very impressed by your transition to the mainstream. Your debut album was released digitally initially. And your entire career has taken place in an era where the music industry has undergone – and still continues to see – massive change. Give me some insight on the business side of the music business.

Allen Stone:  I was always taught to never spend what you don’t have. I think that’s one of the biggest mistakes in the music industry. A lot of labels are realizing that for years, they’ve thrown all this money away to develop artists, and it’s money that is really stupid to spend. Like flying first class, or just little things. I had a sense from my family growing up that there are frugal ways to do things. I toured the country doing couch surfing. It would just be me and my Buick LeSabre and my acoustic guitar. I’d play a small venue for fifty people, and I’d stay on somebody’s couch instead of paying money for a hotel. And all that stuff adds up. If you incur $5,000 worth of debt on a tour, it’s very unlikely that you will hop back out on that same tour, and think: “Oh, yeah, this is going to be fun.” First of all, it’s a lot of hard work. I had a little business sense from that. Also, I met my manager when I was nineteen, and we’ve been working together for about six years now. He has a really good understanding of being frugal in the industry, as well—of not spending money that you don’t need to, and making it all work financially. At the end of the day, that’s what it is, first and foremost, is a business. It’s a business of the art, and even though the art is the sacred portion of it, in order for you to continue creating that art, you’ve got to be profitable. You’ve got to at least break even. A lot of that came from my manager as well.

Clayton Perry:  A great deal of time and energy is also spent on marketing. The album cover only features your name, however, although a full blow-out picture is included as an insert. Was this a conscious decision?

Allen Stone:  Well, that’s a humility thing. It’s not about me as much as the music. I think, also, I didn’t put myself on the cover because I’ve always felt that if somebody picked up a CD in the soul section of Best Buy, and it had my face on the front of it, they would think: “This can’t be any good.” [laughing]

Clayton Perry:  Well, your voice definitely sells the work. Your lyrics and production, too. As a self-described “hippie with soul,” does that phrase have – or take on – a different meaning abroad?

Allen Stone:  I’m sure the interpretation is much different throughout the world. You know something funny? That whole phrase was taken a little bit out of context. Somebody asked me about my style, and I said: “Well, I’m kind of just like a hippie with soul. I don’t really give a s**t.” [laughing]

Clayton Perry:  [laughing]

Allen Stone:  I hate attempting to try and follow the current fashion trend. I just wear what I think looks cool and I look the way I do because I think it’s original. I felt like that was the best way to describe the hippie movement of the ’60s and ’70s, where they were really counterculture. They didn’t want to do the suit and tie thing that their parents had passed down to them. At the time, it was the best way for me to describe it, I guess.

Clayton Perry:  I forgot to mention that “Satisfaction” is my favorite song off the album.

Allen Stone:  Thank you. “Satisfaction” was actually a song I wrote about my experience with the church. It sounds like a love song, but it’s actually a love song to the church. In the pre-chorus, if you notice, it says: “I’m just another quarter in your offering.” That was the giveaway lyric. For me, my experience with the church was I went to Bible college. I woke up one day, and I was like: “I don’t believe this.” I learned about the conception of the Bible and how the Scripture was put together. I studied the text very deeply. I woke up one morning and thought: “This wasn’t what I was raised to believe.” I was raised that all this text was like God’s direct word just to find out it wasn’t. I felt like I had been duped. I decided to leave the church. Once I did, I felt this total backlash from people who, all my life, had talked about forgiveness, acceptance, coexistence and all. Once the actual needle was to the skin, it was just like all that went to s**t. I was in a very bitter state. I wrote that when I was about 21 or 22. I was in a very bitter frame of mind. I’ve since moved past that and gotten over that bitterness and that young 20’s angst.

Clayton Perry:  Nothing’s wrong with a little bit of 20’s angst. So long as it’s measured and controlled [laughing]. We all have those moments [laughing continues].

Allen Stone:  Totally. Yeah, I’m with you. I’m with you.

Clayton Perry:  “Satisfaction” rocks like a jam session. What’s your take on live instrumentation versus pre-recorded tracks?

Allen Stone:  I really dislike the way computers have found their way into the studio, because it lends itself to a bunch of people who aren’t really musicians getting paid to make music and it breaks my heart, because I know so many people who put countless hours into learning actual instruments—learning how to play the bass guitar and the drums really well. Studying those things. Then the industry just makes this shift to where it’s okay for fake drums to be on a record. And then to top it off, now it’s even become okay for one guy with a microphone to stand onstage and one person behind him pushing “play.” I don’t know when that got considered live music, but that just breaks my heart, because I feel like the soul in music is that collaborative effort towards one sound—like a drummer and a bass player and a guitar player lending their abilities towards one sound. There’s a soul in that, but it’s completely lost with the computer music. I still think dubstep and all this deejay music is really cool. I listen to it, and think it’s really original. I do enjoy the sound of it, but let’s put it in this context. If you put two mathematicians in a room and give them the same test and they both score 98 percent on that test, but one is given a calculator and the other one is not given a calculator which one is smarter? Which one is the actual mathematician? Is it the one with the calculator who’s just punching in numbers? Or is it the one who actually knows how to work out each and every equation…

Clayton Perry:  Interesting point.

Allen Stone:  …and doesn’t need anything but a pencil and his mind to do it. That’s, I think, the altering difference to me. I don’t ever want to talk down about somebody’s art, because we’re all on the same pathway, and we’re all just trying to survive. However, I choose to be a purist when I make records because I feel like there is an actual soul. I hear the soul in music that has actual instrumentation on it, and I don’t hear it in music that’s created in the box on computers.

For more information on Allen Stone, visit his official website: http://www.allenstone.com

Where Did Our Love Go

“In an era where the decline of the African-American family and the estrangement of black women from black men are real and abiding dangers, this book reminds black folk of a simple, soul-saving truth: love is, still.” — Pulitzer Prize winner journalist Leonard Pitts

Where Did Our Love Go is a critical look at relationships in today’s African-American community. Marriage is an essential part of the vitality and character of a community. For this reason, the decline of marriage rates within the black community in the United States and its potential implications are of real concern. While marriage rates among African Americans have long been lower than those among other ethnic groups, the gap today is so pronounced that it has sparked an intense national dialogue.

Gil L. Robertson IV is a veteran journalist whose syndicated column, “The Robertson Treatment,” appears in more than 30 newspapers and reaches more than 2 million readers around the country. He is also the editor of Family Affair: What It Means to be African American Today (Agate Bolden, 2009) and Not In My Family: AIDS in the African-American Community (Agate Bolden, 2006).

Where Did Our Love Go: Love and Relationships in the African-American Community | Publication Date: February 12, 2013 | Publisher: Agate Bolden

Date of Interview: 12/04/2012

Over the past two decades, Antwan “Big Boi” Patton has received commercial success and critical acclaim for speaking on wax – and in the streets – about social and political issues that directly affect the African-American community. Although known internationally as an ambassador of hip-hop and one of rap’s great icons, without question, “Big Boi” is Georgia’s beloved native son. From Atlanta to Savannah, Patton is well-regarded for his activist spirit and philanthropic efforts.

In the midst of a promotional campaign for Vicious Lies and Dangerous Rumors, Big Boi managed to squeeze some time out of his busy schedule and settle down for an interview with Clayton Perry – reflecting upon “edutainment,” the birth of Stankonia Studios, and the importance of family.

Clayton Perry:  Over the past two decades, you have witnessed Atlanta evolve into a major player in the music arena. What do you consider to be your biggest contribution to this movement?

Big Boi:  Well, I guess it’s being one of the pioneers in the forefront of the whole music scene in Atlanta. It’s definitely a blessing to be here still making music at a high-caliber, high-quality pace and still changing the game. I’ve been doing my Big Kidz Foundation within the local community for several years. It ties into music because it’s focused on enlightening kids through the arts. It is important to mold young minds because it’s easier to mold the young than it is to repair broken ones. Kids involved in the arts do better in school, generally, because you give them something outside of just school work to express themselves.

Clayton Perry:  You founded the Big Kidz Foundation in Atlanta in 2006. In 2010, the organization expanded to Savannah, Georgia. What motivations led to the expansion?

Big Boi:  Savannah – that’s my hometown and they really need it down there. So in a way, it was a natural progression. I started in Atlanta because that is where I live. But Savannah is where I was born – and I can’t leave them behind. I went down and started registering people for health insurance and things like that. I hope to push it even further in the next couple of years.

Clayton Perry:  As a father, you have a tremendous interest and focus on kids. In fact, the lead single from your second solo project is entitled “Mama Told Me.” Is there a particular message that you find yourself reiterating not only to your own children, but also the children engaged in your foundation?

Big Boi:  Yes. Be original in everything you do, and learn how to speak your mind to get your point across. Communication is the key to everything – and definitely to understanding. As a parent, I have learned that kids learn different things different ways and different pieces of information stick with them differently. When I used to go to the YMCA when I was younger, they used to have different athletes come and talk to us. Certain things that they said stuck with me, like “chase your dreams,” and “if you really want it, go get it.” I was told that at a young age, and believed it – and look where I am today.

Clayton Perry:  In 2008, Dr. Cornel West presented you with the Renaissance Award at the National Black Arts Festival. One of the elements of hip-hop that receives little attention is the “fifth element” concerning knowledge, respect and understanding. What early influences – within your family or community – have compelled to you to be an active and vocal member of the local Atlanta community?

Big Boi:  I was always taught “family comes first.” Well, God first, and then family – virtually at the same time. You have to take care of our own. At the end of the day, all you have is your family. I had a young mother who worked, and we lived with my grandmother when my mother worked all the time. Sometimes we’d live with my grandmother through the school year, and it was a strong family unit, with all my cousins, aunties and uncles living in the projects in West Savannah, Georgia. We didn’t have a lot of money, but we had love and care and we didn’t want for nothing.  I kind of live like that to this day. My immediate and my extended family, we all still come together on Sunday Funday, and watch football games and cook cheese dip, and sit around and kick it and play games and stuff like that. Family is very important. Community, too.

Clayton Perry:  In many ways, your personal upbringing has influenced and extended into your professional life. Stankonia Studios has become a “community studio,” and it is unique in its widespread support of Atlanta’s “community of artists.” Personally and professionally, what has Stankonia provided for you as an artist?

Big Boi:  Well, actually I could start with Bosstown Studios, Bobby Brown’s studio. That was the first studio me and Dré ever recorded in. We used to catch the bus up there before we even had a record deal and just kind of knock on the door and wait on Bobby Brown to come out [laughing]. It was kind of crazy—because people still do that stuff to me now [laughing continues]. Bobby Brown came to one of our shows in North Carolina, and he was like: “Hey, man. You all can have that studio.” So we told our manager. He was like: “Man, get the f**k out of here, man. Bobby Brown’s gone, man. He’s f**kin’ with you all.” So, we came back to Atlanta, checked into it, and sure enough, the studio was in foreclosure. We actually bought it out of foreclosure and revamped it. It’s owned by me and Dré, but I run the studio. That’s my contribution. I have Mr. DJ in one room. I’ve got Royal Flush, my producers, and my whole production company, Boom Boom Boom Productions based out of there. I’ve got Ray from Organized Noize and Chris Carmouche and then my whole team. The guys that are there are just very creative, and we feed off each other. Music is being created 24/7 around the clock. I love up-and-coming talent, and I’ve got a stable of producers and writers. We’ve got a place to work out of and don’t have to worry about it.

Clayton Perry:  Considering the title of your current project, Vicious Lies and Dangerous Rumors, as a product of the South, how has the stigma of “Southern rap” affected you personally?

Big Boi:  Well, we started out in what I like to say “the civil rights years of the Southern hip-hop movement” – [laughing] – where you couldn’t drink out of the same water fountain. There was no respect. They looked at Southern rappers as something less than an MC. It wasn’t until after the release of Southernplayalisticadillacmuzik (1994) – and Goodie Mob’s Soul Food (1995) – that we garnered respect. They booed us at Source Awards when we won “Best Rap Duo.” And like Dré said on that stage: “the South got something to say.”  I congratulate and salute every artist coming out of Atlanta that’s living their dreams. Everybody’s not going to make the same type of music. Different artists do different types of music.  At the same time, the music that they’re making is going across the water, too. Whether people like it or not, they go do shows overseas and it still keeps the art form alive. Everybody can’t rhyme ferociously and it ain’t about lyrics all the time. Now, it’s about who can make the best jam.

Clayton Perry:  From your perspective, as an artist as well as a member of the hip-hop community, what’s your impression of how rap music has evolved and been received internationally?

Big Boi:  It’s expanded globally – no doubt. Like over here in the States, they’ve got us trapped in a box. Like they zombified the music. Many of the mainstream radio stations are playing the same five songs all day long. They drill them into your head. You find yourself singing a song you don’t like because they’re programming you. That’s why they call it “radio programming.” In Europe, all  genres of music are played all day long on the radio. You might hear some Big Boi; then you might hear some Metallica. The music is so diverse. Over here, they’ve got us so boxed in it’s ridiculous. The one alternative that we do have out here that’s really great is satellite radio. I can say that’s the closest thing that we’ll get to having freedom on the radio, because the mainstream radio stations that are programming your mind through these songs are playing the same five records all day long—by request or not. So, people have got to call up them and say, “Stop playing that s**t, man.”

Clayton Perry:  You have been very vocal on social media outlets – like Twitter – speaking on the execution of Troy Davis and the murder of Trayvon Martin. What are some creative and unique ways that you see yourself trying to mobilize people in the future? Have you had any discussions with other artists in terms of how to use social media to get people to be more engaged in what’s going on?

Big Boi:  My slogan is “each one teach one.” If you have a bit of information, it’s always good to pass it around just to spread awareness of what’s going on in the world. You can entertain as well as educate at the same time. KRS-ONE said it the best: “edutainment.” So, yeah, my Twitter page ain’t just about me, or just what’s going on with me. I like to give my followers the world news. A lot of people always comment that my news is better than mainstream media because I’m going to give you what they’re not telling you. You feel me? The mainstream news is programming as well. They’re telling you, actually, what they want to tell you. There are stories happening every day that people never hear about, and if it wasn’t for social networking, then people would never even know what’s going on the world. So, you’ve got to do that. I feel it’s my responsibility. And who knows, man? In fifteen or twenty years, I might run for mayor of Atlanta, or governor. You feel me?

Clayton Perry:  Hey, do that! Do that.

Big Boi:  All right. If Jesse Ventura can do it, s**t! [laughing] Believe it.

For more information on Antwan “Big Boi” Patton, visit his official website: http://www.bigboi.com

Date of Interview: 08/23/2012

Emeli Sande is the 2012 winner of the BRIT Critics’ Choice Award. Sande’s debut album – Our Version of Events – became the year’s biggest-selling new release in the United Kingdom, as well as the fastest-selling since Susan Boyle’s I Dreamed a Dream (2009). The critical and commercial success of the Scottish-born singer led her to play a crucial role in the 2012 Summer Olympics – performing Henry Francis Lyte’s hymn “Abide With Me” during the Opening ceremony, “Read All About It” (Part III) during the Closing ceremony, and a cover of John Lennon’s “Imagine” exclusively for BBC’s coverage of the Games.

“Wonder” – Our Version of Events’ fifth single – will be released on September 30, 2012. In support of the Naughty Boy-produced track, Emeli Sande managed to squeeze some time out of her busy schedule to settle down for an interview with Clayton Perry – reflecting on life as a medical student, the “science” behind music-making, and her emotional attachment to “Heaven.”

Clayton Perry:  You have multiple talents. You’re a singer, a songwriter and a musician. Which talent developed first – and how does each talent inform the other?

Emeli Sandé:  Well, singing was definitely the first thing. That was something I did since I was a baby, really. I just love singing. I love melody. That was really my first way of expressing myself. I was a really shy kid, so I think having a voice and having a loud voice when I was singing—the first thing I just loved about music was having that expression. After that, I guess it was writing. I loved poetry, and I loved creating something from nothing. I think that gives you a real power that kids don’t usually have. So, creating was another thing after singing. Then after that came the instruments. When I was about nine or ten, I began playing piano, clarinet, and cello. It came from there. I think as soon as I started learning an instrument, it gave me that backing so that you could sit and write the song, and you didn’t need to fill every gap. It allowed me to relax a bit more with the songwriting and really find a strong voice there.

Clayton Perry:  When touring, you tend to open or close your sets with “Heaven.” What emotional attachment do you have to this particular song, and how does the song’s placement affect the mood of your performance?

Emeli Sandé:  Well, lyrically for me that song is something that grows with me all the time. The song is about how you try to be good every day, and try to make sure that by the end of the day you feel you’ve been a good person; but there’s so many distractions and the world is so fast at the moment. That’s what the song is about. My connection to that is everyday it’s a new challenge. Every time I sing it, I’m singing about something that has happened in that week or on that day, so it’s always quite emotionally raw for me to sing it. And when I do perform that song – especially when I perform it stripped back – I think it really makes me vulnerable to the audience, because everybody’s trying to do it. Nobody’s better at it than anybody else. It hopefully connects myself and the audience on the next level.

Clayton Perry:  And when you reflect upon the album as a whole, what events from your childhood, family or academic life as a medical student – consciously or unconsciously – shaped and guided the creative process?

Emeli Sandé:  It’s all just a journey. I can’t think of one thing. Before I moved to London or started working with producers, being on the piano was such a big influence. I learned so much about jazz and soul music with that. Then working with producers opened up my world to genres, and to sampling, and to simplifying, and to pop music. And then after that, studying definitely taught me a lot about discipline and how to complete something that you’ve begun. So, everything’s had its own way of shaping how I am now.

Clayton Perry:  You mentioned how your academic life gave you that discipline. In what ways have you found music to be a “scientific process”? Do you believe there a science to music?

Emeli Sandé:  I don’t think so. I think if I could find that out, then that would be really useful [laughing]. But I don’t think so. I’ve worked with a lot of different songwriters that have a formula, and they have a way of constructing a pop record which is fair enough. I don’t think you can ever have a formula for a classic song. When I listen to songs that really just kill me every time I hear them – Donny Hathaway or some of the Beatles work or Tracy Chapman – those songs definitely come from a spontaneous emotion, and they come from years of them developing their craft. So, no. I don’t think you can be scientific with music. I think you can be scientific in learning an instrument or perfecting your voice or keeping it healthy; but when it comes to that spark of creativity, I don’t think you can harness it, really.

Clayton Perry:  Although you don’t believe music-making to be an exact science per se, you have worked with some extraordinary songwriters including Alicia Keys and Chris Martin of Coldplay. You also worked extensively with Craze & Hoax [Harry "Craze" & Hugo "Hoax" Chegwin] on your album. Were there any tips shared in your songwriting sessions that have helped you develop your own songwriting style?

Emeli Sandé:  When I worked with Alicia, it was really cool. I mean, she’s had such a long and successful career—so tips from her about how you have to be honest and true about what you’re writing, and then that way it resonates with people. You also need to understand the market you’re in. You can’t become too self-indulgent. That wasn’t anything she specifically told me, but I could definitely tell by the way she works and the way she approaches her art—everything is considered. That was a great lesson to learn.

Clayton Perry:  Before branching out on your own, you worked actively behind the scenes writing for others. How did working behind the scenes and seeing your work performed by others guide you in preparing for your own professional career? Also, as a songwriter, how do you feel when an artist’s performance of your work takes on or creates a different interpretation?

Emeli Sandé:  Working for other people was a great learning curve for me, because it really made me understand the music industry. It made me understand radio. It also made me see that when working with different artists and just seeing how different teams work, unless you specifically know what you want to say, other people are going to decide for you. That, for me, was like: “Before I even attempt to be an artist, I need to know exactly what I want to say and what type of artist I want to be.” I think more than anything, you need to understand the industry. But seeing other people sing my work is great, because the way I write is an emotional way of writing, and I’m always very honest—no matter if the song is for me or for somebody else. So, when I see people interpret what I’m singing, they’re usually interpreting it in a way that’s emotional for them. They’re never faking it. So, I love seeing different people’s interpretations. They found something in their life or their emotions that is connected with that song. It’s always interesting for me to see that.

Clayton Perry:  I must admit that when I see the video for “My Kind of Love,” there is a definite emotional connection for me. You may not have used the scientific method when you wrote that song, but when translating it to video format, what additional layers of storytelling go into the process?

Emeli Sandé:  When it comes to videos, I love working with directors that inspire me visually. When I’ve seen someone’s work that’s just made me think outside the box—I always love working with people like that in a collaborative way. But specifically for “My Kind of Love,” the director and I had a conversation on the phone and I told her the story that had inspired me to write that song. As a [third and fourth year] med student, you go into hospitals and start learning the practice of being a doctor. So even as a med student, you’re entrusted with so many personal stories and so many real raw emotions. It was seeing who is there for you when you’re in hospital, who actually comes for you when your health has gone—the one thing that we all take for granted. I told a very specific story about a patient I’d met, and then she helped me bring it to life. So, that song’s really important to me, and writing it was really special, because vocally I feel like I can really let everything out, and really let that emotion come through; but lyrically I feel it really says exactly what I wanted it to say.

Clayton Perry:  As evidenced by your introduction and appreciation to different genres, your artistry and style are very hard to categorize — compared to American mainstream artists who are placed in an identifiable box. When I listen to your work, I hear elements of Gospel, jazz, and contemporary R&B. Following in the footsteps of Amy Winehouse and Adele, both of whom have had a tremendous amount of success in the States and abroad, what lessons have you learned from their marketing and promotional campaigns?

Emeli Sandé:  Well, I love Gospel. Gospel is one of the first types of music that really moved me as a kid, hearing all those harmonies. Gospel is a big part of what I do, definitely. But yeah, that’s something I definitely noticed here in the States. In the U.K., you put music out, and if it’s different, then it’s a lot less important to categorize what it is, because we don’t have a big R&B station or anything like that. There’s just Radio 1, and it plays just anything that people are feeling. Over here, I definitely notice there’s much more of a need to be categorized into one thing or the other. I don’t really know what I could be put under! [laughing]

Clayton Perry:  I think that’s a good thing! [laughing]

Emeli Sandé:  How it’s going to affect the kind of music that comes over here, I’m not sure. I’m just going to approach it the same way I did in the U.K., and hopefully with patience and perseverance people will go beyond trying to box it and will just listen to the content. But yes, my God, I’m a massive fan. Amy Winehouse’s music for me is so special, and I think she is one of the best things to come out of the U.K. for years and years. I remember when she first came out, she was just a jazz artist. I remember her first album. I loved the freedom she had. I think following in those types of footsteps and just having that freedom and creating something that I love, first off; then hopefully I can just allow it to connect with people without tagging it to anything.

Clayton Perry:  Now that your professional life has kicked into overdrive following your Olympic performances, what do you do in your downtime to relax?

Emeli Sandé:  I’m trying to stop doing this – because I always end up realizing that I’m working – but I love sitting and playing at the piano. It’s just so therapeutic for me. I usually end up playing an instrument. Then I’m like: “I’m working again!” [laughing] I need to find time that I’m just not doing that. I love watching films and hanging out with my family and my friends. But at some point, I always end up at the piano. It’s in me, and it’s the way I relax. I guess playing stuff that’s so different from my genre of music; playing classical or playing the cello. I think that’s the way forward.

For more information on Emeli Sande, visit her official website: http://www.emelisande.com

Date of Interview: 07/18/2012

Roger M. Bobb is the President and CEO of Bobbcat Films. A six-time NAACP Image Award winner, he is also the former Executive Vice President of Tyler Perry Studios. To date, his various film projects have amassed over $500 million in box office receipts. His theatrical producing credits include: Diary Of A Mad Black Woman, Madea’s Family Reunion, Daddy’s Little Girls, Why Did I Get Married?, Meet The Browns, The Family that Preys, Madea Goes To Jail, I Can Do Bad All By Myself, Why Did I Get Married Too?, For Colored Girls and Madea’s Big Happy Family.

Roger M. Bobb marks his directorial debut with Raising Izzie, a GMC Network feature film, which also serves as the first film produced under his new film and television production company. In the midst of promotional support for Raising Izzie, Roger M. Bobb managed to squeeze some time out his busy schedule and settle down for an interview with Clayton Perry – reflecting upon the influence of Spike Lee, the founding of Bobbcat Films, and lessons learned working under Woody Allen and Tyler Perry.

Clayton Perry:  Your directorial debut, Raising Izzie, revolves around the power and necessity of faith. Connect this theme and message to your professional pursuits, in particular the founding of Bobbcat Films.

Roger M. Bobb:  As most people know, I came from Tyler Perry Studios where I served as executive vice president and I started my own company to create a diverse slate of programming. I am a Christian and I am not ashamed to say it. A piece of what I want to do is make films for the faith-based audience, which is what I have done in the past. Although I have worked on a lot of sitcoms in the past, this is my feature film debut as a director. And the fact that this film speaks to family, faith, love and forgiveness is a no-brainer for me. I got involved with this project after attending the American Black Film Festival. GMC hosted a screenplay competition and I remember hearing the screenplay being read by several actors since it was a finalist in the competition. And the whole time I thought to myself: “Hey, that’s a really good script.” And then the script ended up winning the completion, and a few months later the Vice-Chairman of GMC asked me to produce it, since he had seen me produce several other films. I said, “OK,” and told him to send me the script. The script resonated so much with me that I decided to produce the film but only if I was allowed to direct it.  What really resonated with me the most is the fact that the hero couple is black and the kids are white. And obviously, one of the themes in the film is “love is where you find it” – regardless of race, ethnicity and social-economic status. However, as a film-goer, I am used to seeing the “great white hype” films – like The Blind Side – where you have a white family saving this black soul. And when I read the script, it was something different. Here, you have a black family basically opening up their hearts to these two little white girls. But fundamentally, what resonated with me is the fact that it was two separate families – one being these two little girls and the other being a married couple – that are going through trials and tribulations in their life and they find each other. That just spoke to me and that’s why I decided to do the film.

Clayton Perry:  Towards the end of the film, actor Rockmond Dunbar states: “I’ll fully admit that I don’t understand how God moves. But I know He is real.” When you reflect upon the years and look back at your career, what do you consider to be the biggest obstacle that you had to overcome, and what key factors do you think have attributed to your success?

Roger M. Bobb:  To be honest, I really work hard, and one should never underestimate the value of hard work. Quite frankly, there are more talented people, and there are people who have had longer careers, but I am a very hard worker and I am passionate about what I do. I love making film and television. And of course, luck plays into everything in life. I have had enough luck in my career that I was able to align myself with people who were able to take my career to a higher level. Certainly, meeting Tyler Perry. You know what? Let’s not call it luck. Let’s call it a blessing. My life has been filled with blessings and I have been able to capitalize upon the blessings that God has given me in life.

Clayton Perry:  Born in London, but raised in Brooklyn, at what point did you discover your love of film as an art form? And taken further, at what point did you determine that filmmaking was the career that you were willing to pursue?

Roger M. Bobb:  I moved to Brooklyn at a very early age. And growing up in Brooklyn, I always had an affinity for film and television. When I was younger, I took acting lessons and music lessons and things like that and I was always interested in the arts. But growing up in the mean streets of Brooklyn, it wasn’t until this young black brother from a neighborhood less than half a mile from where I lived named Spike Lee directed a film called She’s Gotta Have It (1986). I was about 18 or 19 at the time and it just totally blew me away. I could not believe that someone that looked like me and came from my neighborhood could achieve the level of success that he had achieved with this particular film. Now, yes, I loved the film and loved Spike Lee, but quite frankly I still thought that films were made in Hollywood far, far away. And so it was really a matter of me pursuing my goal and pursuing my dreams and realizing that I wanted to be a filmmaker because I was set and prepared to go to law school. But one night it just clicked and I realized that you only have one life to live and you have to at least try to pursue your inner passions. But it was really Spike Lee’s She’s Gotta Have It that made me feel that I, as an African-American, could have a career in film. And this was also around the time that Robert Townsend came out with Hollywood Shuffle (1987) and several other independent filmmakers were getting their start.

Clayton Perry:  Your career in film began in 1997 when you were accepted into the Director’s Guild of America’s prestigious Assistant Director Trainee program. Having worked as a First Assistant Director on over 50 films, what professional lessons from the first decade of your film career guided you into your second?

Roger M. Bobb:  I was fortunate to work on a film called Celebrity with Woody Allen. The people and opportunities that come into your life always give you the chance to learn something new. And very early on, I learned from him the value of knowing what you want. He doesn’t spend a lot of time in pre-production. He doesn’t even spend a lot of time shooting. His shooting hours aren’t that long. He knows exactly what he wants and he is able to communicate that to his crew. That is a real skill. Working with Tyler [Perry] was the same way. Our film shoots weren’t long. We don’t shoot a tremendous amount of days. We don’t have huge budgets – but he knew exactly what he wanted. And I can say that is something that I have really learned from those two directors.

Clayton Perry:  Is there a particular project, or series of projects, during the early years that you consider to be transformative in your approach to filmmaking?

Roger M. Bobb:  I was fortunate to work on New York Undercover, a television show with Malik Yoba and Michael DeLorenzo. That was my first experience with a multi-cultural crew. The films that I had worked on beforehand were 90 to 95 percent white. And so that was the first time that I was able to experience key people in key positions who were African-American. And through that experience, I was able to see that it wasn’t just me – and that there were other people like me – that liked to make films and wanted a career in the film and television industry. One of the things that I admire about Spike and Tyler – not only for their success in front of the camera – but they have been really able to help so many careers behind the camera. That’s something that I don’t think either one of them gets enough credit for.

Clayton Perry:  Considering the fact that New York Undercover was your first multi-cultural experience in Hollywood, when you examine the fifteen years or so that you have been in the business, what external progress are you most proud to have witnessed, and what internal obstacles still need to be overcome?

Roger M. Bobb:  Certainly, when you look at African-American films, there was a time – and I may be wrong with the year, it may have been 1999 – there were 21 black films. I remember because I had a shirt that listed every single film. But now when you flash-forward to twenty-twelve, we maybe have five or six films being released. So I would certainly like to see that improve. And you know how that happens? We have to support the films that we like. We can’t just wait for them to come out on DVD. We have to show our support at the box office. What has happened on the flip-side: television improved – with regards to cable networks – specifically the sitcoms. When House of Payne came out in 2005, there were only about 2 to 3 black sitcoms on the air. And now, this year alone, we are going to have about 7 or 8. So while I am saddened that our output in terms of film has declined, because of how much it costs to make a film relative to the cost it takes to make a sitcom, I feel that our television projects have increased. So hopefully, that will continue to happen. On the whole, I would just like to see more diverse African-American programming. We are not one monolithic culture. We have different experiences. We have different thoughts. Take music for example. Everyone doesn’t love hip-hop. Everyone doesn’t love jazz. Everyone doesn’t love Gospel. Here, we have three different types of music, and –quite frankly – three different types of lifestyles that African-American live. And for that reason, I am a strong advocate for diverse programming that reflects the diversity of African-Americans within the United States.

Clayton Perry:  To date, you have won six NAACP Image Awards for your film and television projects. As one of Hollywood’s most-successful producers, what responsibilities do you knowingly – and perhaps unconsciously – place upon yourself when taking on a film or television project?

Roger M. Bobb:  I am currently producing The Rickey Smiley Show starring Rickey Smiley [for TV One]. And while we were shooting, I was talking with the writers and other producers about how white shows can simply be funny. When you are producing black content, you feel a certain level of responsibility not only to be funny but also to be responsible with the jokes that you tell and the characters that you portray. If you have a negative character, for example, then you feel compelled to have a positive character to balance out and counter-act that negative character. White content creators just have the freedom to be creative and to be funny – especially when it comes to sitcoms. When you look at Good Times and The Jeffersons, they always dealt with social issues as opposed to just being funny. Jerry Seinfeld: I am not sure he dealt with one serious social issue on his show, but he certainly was funny. Being an African-American content provider, this is one of the crosses that you have to bear – if you are a responsible one.

Clayton Perry:  You are one of the principle investors in The Green Room Acting Lounge based in Atlanta, Georgia. Discuss the origins – as well as your attachment to – this community-driven business venture.

Roger M. Bobb:  The Green Room is a coffee shop and acting studio partnered with Terri J. Vaughn. She is an actress that many people know from Meet the Browns and The Steve Harvey Show – and she has moved to Atlanta. What she found – as far as ways in getting materials to actors – Atlanta does not have them. If you are an actor or actress or interested in acting, then you can go to the Green Room and get a cup of coffee, free Internet, and more importantly literature on acting, film and theatre. We also offer acting lessons during the day and on the weekends. We also have special workshops: Jasmine Guy (A Different World) has come through there, along with Kim Fields (Living Single). And quite often, when actors are filming a project, they come by and speak to people – writers, producers and directors. It has been a really great way for us to give back to the community and show people that there are people in the arts that really do care about fostering the arts in Atlanta.

For more information on Roger M. Bobb and Bobbcat Studios, visit the company’s official website: http://www.bobbcatfilms.com

OCEAN water has remarkably uniform chemical composition despite all of the various elements and creatures that reside within it. Even when controlled and uncontrolled substances are dumped into its waters, it pH level remains fairly neutral – being neither wholly basic nor acidic. So let us all – for a moment – skinny dip in the “odd waters” of Mister Frank’s OCEAN!

On Tuesday, July 3, 2012, Frank Ocean revealed via Tumblr that he was bisexual. (Lock-and-step: favorable news headlines were penned; fellow entertainers fawned over the announcement; and the singer-songwriters’ Twitter following increased substantially.) Without trivializing “the matter,” kudos is deserved to Frank Ocean for being open and honest about the man he claims himself to be. Shame on the media for treating his disclosure as some grand circus exhibition! And shame on America for failing to recall the pioneering life and works of James Baldwin – who traversed these waters decades earlier! (*sigh*) Without harping too long on shame, however, let us focus on the far more important issues – floating unnoticed, yet festering unequivocally – in Mister Frank’s OCEAN.

What entertainers say has become infinitely more important and more of a story than what they actually do. In the midst of all of this superficial, celebratory saluting, the spotlight that has been placed upon Frank Ocean’s sexuality would be better served channeling energies toward issues that affect large swaths of LGBT youth: bullying, homelessness, and suicide. If young men and women weren’t demonized as social pariahs in grade school or within their family’s household, then the “coming out” of grown men and women would start earlier, be easier, and filled with less strife. LGBT youth often have few safe havens – or the social and economic privileges of Frank Ocean –  to “be fearless” and “be honest” and “be brave.” Encouragement from GLAAD is a start, but it definitely is not enough; and unfortunately, tolerance alone does not change a society’s beliefs or eradicate oppression.

The implications of homophobia have never been discussed in a national dialogue. The title of MTV’s 7/8/2012 article – How Does Frank Ocean’s Sexuality Affect Odd Future? – is beyond ridiculous! For starters, one’s sexuality is one’s own sexuality. It is not a plague, or a sickness, that is transferred from one human being to another. Then, again, does the presence of “homosexuals” evoke “symptoms” – and changes – in the people that surround them? Perhaps. According to Lil’ Scrappy, “closeted” men – men who are or once were like Frank Ocean – are simply “a doorway to AIDS, scientifically.” He applauds “coming out,” of course, so that the disease can no longer be spread to straight people. (Seriously.)

Frank Ocean’s mother – Katonya Riley – is proud of her son, but what about his father? Riley posted a message on Twitter to show her support; and Ocean had noted previously that his “absent father” has been cyberstalking him. To be certain: there are few bonds stronger than a mother’s love. Her unconditional love is heart-warming. Even so, in this paternalistic American culture, it would be quite interesting to unearth the thoughts of his father. His opinion wouldn’t change Frank’s admission of bisexuality, but it would add tremendous depth to the larger conversation about fatherhood, black manhood, and alternative masculinities.

just found out my absent father's been cyberstalking me. hi dad.

—
frank ocean (@frank_ocean) June 14, 2012

My son is brave and honest and I am very proud of him. I wish more people in the world could be brave enough to be who they really are.

—
katonya breaux riley (@katonya) July 04, 2012

Although bisexuality is not the same as homosexuality, the two are often lumped together and treated with similar malice. Considering Frank’s professional background, it is quite shocking that so many journalists and media outlets have given Odd Future Wolf Gang Kill Them All – and its leader, Tyler, the Creator – a pass for their previous use of homophobic lyrics in spite of prior knowledge about their fellow member’s sexual orientation. Fervent tosses of the words “faggot,” “gay” and “sus” are apparently OK – even to Mister Ocean. Then again, this is the same nonsensical rational that people give misogynists rappers for the use of the word “bitch” and misguided people of color use for “nigger.” The times are definitely changing, so we might as well call our mothers, fathers, brothers and sisters every dirty word in the book. It’s all love, right? Of course not! Suicide among lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender youth is comparatively higher than among the general population.

Fucking Finally Sus Boy @frank_ocean Hahahaha, You Still Aint Got No Bitches Hahaha My Nigga Dawg

—
Tyler, The Creator (@fucktyler) July 04, 2012

My Big Brother Finally Fucking Did That. Proud Of That Nigga Cause I Know That Shit Is Difficult Or Whatever. Anyway. Im A Toilet.

—
Tyler, The Creator (@fucktyler) July 04, 2012

One day, when everyone stops skinny-dipping in Mister Frank’s OCEAN, perhaps they will examine and survey James Baldwin’s texts, or ponder the nuances of the ardent, quiet, behind-the-scenes support of Jay-Z revolving the publication of dream hampton’s open letter on the rap mogul’s Life + Times blog.

SUGGESTED READING

“Frank Ocean Say He Gay” by Kevin Powell [originally posted on his personal blog, and published later on Huffington Post]

“Creating His Own Gravity” by Jon Caramanica [New York Times]

“How Will Frank Ocean Change Our Conversation About Coming Out?” [reader forum on ColorLines]

RECOMMENDED LINKS

[bullying] http://www.stopbullying.gov/at-risk/groups/lgbt/index.html

[homelessness] http://www.nationalhomeless.org/factsheets/lgbtq.html

[suicide] http://www.thetrevorproject.org/organization

Date of Interview: 06/18/2012

Long before Haley Reinhart made a name for herself as an American Idol finalist, she was performing on international stages. Haley’s pre-Idol participation in Switzerland’s Montreux Jazz Festival and Italy’s Umbria Jazz Festival underpinned her dazzling soul-infused renditions that ultimately led to her third-place finish. Throughout the tenth season, Reinhart tackled several venerable classics: “God Bless the Child” (Billie Holiday), “Fallin’” (Alicia Keys), and “Rolling in the Deep” (Adele). Her debut album – Listen Up! – was released via 19 Recordings and Interscope Records on May 22, 2012 and received widespread critical acclaim.

In the midst of a promotional campaign for Listen Up, Haley Reinhart spoke with Clayton Perry about her upbringing in a “house of rock,” the catharsis she found in slam poetry, and the value of risk-taking.

Clayton Perry:  Both of your parents – [Harry Reinhart and Patti Miller-Reinhart] – are musicians who played in their own band. What artistic values and professional lessons did you learn from both of them on an individual level?

Haley Reinhart:  I give my parents credit all of the time, because I am very blessed to have grown up in a home with so much music and parents that were so dedicated to their passion. They played – and that’s how they met – and they’ve been playing in a band together forever.  I grew up around great music and listening to the classics. Respect of live performance has been in my blood from day one. As a little kid, I went to clubs, and I have always been around that lifestyle and talking to adults at a really young age. All these things really broadened my mind and opened up a whole new world for me where there was no turning back. I knew I wanted to be an entertainer.

Clayton Perry:  On your debut album – Listen Up! – you co-wrote every song except for “Free.” As a singer and a songwriter, reflect upon a specific time or place in which you fully recognized each talent. And between the two, which skill comes most naturally for you?

Haley Reinhart:  I grew up in school doing a lot of poetry – mostly slam poetry – and anything that would let me get my feelings out.  I started writing songs in middle school, but when I give myself the time to sit down, and reflect, and feel, and let things come out, I find that it’s very easy for me to do. I just have to give myself the chance to do so. I have always been a real busybody. Even when I was back home in Chicago, I would make so much time for my friends and I was just all over the place. When I sat down and just took a moment of solitude, it came really easy – especially melodies. Those would just come in my head constantly, and I would try to get a voice memo down or something immediately. I had hundreds and hundreds of them on my phone until the phone broke.

Clayton Perry:  Oh, wow! I know that was heart-breaking.

Haley Reinhart:  Yeah, it was a sad thing – breaking my phone and losing a lot of potential material. But I am really thankful that I was able to get my hands dirty on my debut album and let everybody know that I was there to work. I wanted to be a part of every aspect – the melody, the lyrics and the production.

Clayton Perry:  Before your American Idol experience, you attended Harper College in Palatine, Illinois, to study jazz. What technical skills or level of artistic appreciation did your college experience heighten or teach you?

Haley Reinhart:  I went to school and I was surrounded by all these amazing musicians; and even in high school, I was with a wonderful jazz director. I was able to go to Switzerland and Italy my senior year, performing jazz in the Montreux and Umbria Jazz Fests with this band as their first singer. That was a huge eye-opener for me. And going into college, they never really had any singers. I was the first one to broaden that spectrum when they took me in as a singer. Mostly it was jazz vocal performance. I was in three combos – and I was in a big band – so I have so much respect for music theory. I know the basics, but to be honest, I kind of cheated my way through that because I went by ear. I grew up with a musical ear, so I would hear things, memorize it and repeat it back. If I’m going to admit to it, I will, but I do appreciate everybody that goes through it, because it’s a lot of work.

Clayton Perry:  My favorite tracks from your debut album are “Undone” and “Now that You’re Here.” For each track, make a quick note on the songwriting process, recording experience or lyrical influences.

Haley Reinhart:  “Undone” was a really big change of pace for me, because the rest of the album is very mid-tempo. It has a good groove to it, and that’s where I like to be most of the time – as far as performance is concerned. It’s different doing ballads, and it is a little bit more on the “poppy” side, especially with the repetitive “undone, undone, undone.” So it was interesting for me hopping into that world. I added a whole lot to it, and I just kind of dug deep into a darker, heartbroken place and that’s what came out. “Now That You’re Here,” I had a lot of fun writing this one, and I had a lot of great people around me. Me and Sam Watters were going back and forth just talking about love and listening to other music. I remember we were listening to Nina Simone and really contemplating the world itself, and everywhere that life has taken us so far – all those things that make up love to us. And then as far as the sound goes, I love old soul, Motown, R&B; so, we really got a good groove with this one. And it just kept going. I mean, the time just flew by. Fourteen hours later, I was thinking of all these background parts that just kept coming, and I couldn’t stop putting down.

Clayton Perry:  As you pieced this album together, you worked with several different writers and producers. How did this affect your approach to the recording process?

Haley Reinhart:  Diving right into the process, that was a whole other ball game. I mean, you’re right. I was in a new city, first of all. I went from Chicago to LA. So here I am in Hollywood – driving to all these strange houses and studios. I had no idea what I was getting myself into each day. Let’s take Busby. He’s one of the very first producers that I met. We’d write the song and record it all in one day. Then the next day would be somebody completely different with a completely different song. That’s just how I worked for three months. I got about thirty tunes out, and then it became a pick and choose ordeal. The more and more I wrote, the easier it was to know which direction I wanted to go in, and the easier it became to just walk in without feeling nervous – just ready to work and get something good out.

Clayton Perry:  Following your Idol experience, you became known as a “risk-taker.” How did you harness and develop this trait in your early life? And what do you consider to be the greatest risk that you took during the production of Listen Up!

Haley Reinhart:  I’d like to say it’s the Midwestern chick in me – coming from Chicago. I grew up with a really strong family and really strong friends. I have a very strong sense of where I come from, and what I want to do, and the kind of person and artist that I want to be. I am very grateful to be a part of Interscope Records – where all these huge things happening. It’s not an easy ticket. I’m working my butt off. But the other part of where I get to win is knowing that I’m making music that I’m proud of. I’m really harnessing who I am and continuing to bring that out through everything that I do. As far as risk taking goes, I’ve always just put myself out there and had a positive attitude about the experience, just thinking: “What could be bad about this? Let’s see what happens.”

Clayton Perry:  Do you feel that you took a risk with the musical direction of this particular album? Although a student of jazz and a lover of rock, your album makes use of a different aesthetic – incorporating blues and the sounds of Motown.

Haley Reinhart:  You know, the sound just ended up coming out like this. I went in knowing my roots and what kind of music I love. I came from a house of rock and classic rock, as well as old soul, blues and jazz. Incorporating all these things made this sound happen. That’s not to say that I don’t think the next album could go in a more “rocky” direction. As I grow, my music will continue to evolve, and there are so many things that I would love to touch on. But the fact that this came out a little bit more on the funky side, I’m really happy about it.

Clayton Perry:  Beyond the music, and focusing on the visuals utilized in your album artwork and packaging materials, it appears that you are fan of pin-up girls from the late fifties and sixties. It’s sexy, yet classy.

Haley Reinhart:  I just always wished I was a kid of the sixties. In a way, growing up with my parents, I lived in their era. I tapped into it at such a young age. I just really admire it. And looking back at the women in the fifties and all the classy, sexy pinup women of that time who were so strong in their own way, I find it very empowering. I think it’s so important to have this class about you, but maintain sex appeal. All these things combined: this is one of my favorite looks.

Clayton Perry:  Following the release of your debut, what memories shine bright in this early stage of your artistic journey?

Haley Reinhart:  There have been multiple things. Nothing compares to hearing my single on the radio for the first time. Driving down to Virginia Beach, I’ll never forget where I was at that point. And then doing all these promo tours – seeing fans and being able to tell you’ve made such an impact on them. They draw you things. They give you these amazing letters. I’ve come across more and more since the American Idol tour, and it really hits home and touches my heart. As far as performing, I was able to be a part of Muhammad Ali’s 70th birthday celebration, the Power of Love Gala. That night will always stand out to me. I was amongst legendary musicians, artists, and actors, and nothing can compare. I got off that stage feeling larger than life. I was the baby artist, and I just felt so pleased and honored to be a part of all of that.  I love hearing that the music that I’ve worked so hard on is exactly the direction my fans can see me going in. On American Idol, I did a lot of different things – and I love a lot of different genres. But I was able to create my own sound, and when I receive feedback from people saying that my work sounds like a collective record, that is really, really pleasing.

For more information on Haley Reinhart, visit her official website: http://www.haleyreinhart.com

Date of Interview: 05/18/2012

Dr. Roscoe Brown served as one of the Tuskegee Airmen during World War II. As squadron commander of the 100th Fighter Squadron of the 332nd Fighter Group, Brown flew 68 long-range missions from August of 1944 to March of 1945. For his service, he received the Distinguished Flying Cross. In 2007, the Tuskegee Airmen were collectively awarded the Congressional Gold Medal by President George W. Bush.

The experiences of the Tuskegee Airmen are highlighted in Red Tails, a film produced by George Lucas [theatrical release date: January 20, 2012]. The film was directed by Anthony Hemingway and based upon a screenplay crafted by John Ridley and Aaron McGruder. In support of the DVD release [May 22, 2012], Dr. Roscoe Brown spoke with Clayton Perry about his Air Force experience, life under “Jim Crow,” and the value of education.

Clayton Perry:  Long before you became a Tuskegee Airman, at what point in your childhood did you become interested in aviation?

Roscoe Brown:  At that time, aviation was very new, and Charles Lindbergh had flown across the Atlantic Ocean. When I was a kid about six years old, my parents took me to the Smithsonian Institution to look at the Spirit of St. Louis plane, and I became interested in aviation. Aviation was only about thirty years old when Lindbergh flew across the ocean. During the 1930s, they had air races. Many of us made airplane models, and we flew models of World War II planes and racing planes. Many of us wanted to be pilots, but because of the racism and the segregation, we didn’t have the opportunity. I grew up in Washington, D.C., which was a segregated city, and we went to all-black schools. That opportunity didn’t come until the beginning of World War II when they started the Tuskegee Airmen.

Clayton Perry:  Before joining the Air Force, you attended Springfield College. What was your area of study?

Roscoe Brown:  Springfield College was an integrated college. There were sixteen blacks out of about 650 students. I ended up being the valedictorian of my class. I majored in health and physical education, which is now known as sports medicine. I had a triple major in chemistry and premedical studies. When I came back from the service, I went for my Ph.D., which I got in the field of exercise physiology and sports medicine.

Clayton Perry:  When you arrived at Tuskegee, what was your initial impression of Alabama?

Roscoe Brown:  Well, as you know, the Southern part of the country was racially segregated, and the segregation was very brutal in some instances and very demeaning in other instances. You couldn’t go to restaurants. You couldn’t go to theatres. That was the law of the land in the Southern part of the country, and we couldn’t do anything about it. But the reason they picked Tuskegee is that there was a famous college there – [Tuskegee Institute] – which was founded by Booker T. Washington in 1881. They had a substantial number of black professionals – doctors, lawyers, and professors. That environment was a positive environment. In addition, following the stupidity of segregation, the military spent a million dollars to build a separate air base to train the Tuskegee Airmen. The pilots that trained us were white pilots, most of whom really believed that we could learn to fly. The ones who didn’t were eventually transferred. So, we had some good instruction and some good support, and it’s because of that support, and our own energy, and our own desire to be the best we could be that we ended up to be as good we were.

Clayton Perry:  How long was the training process? And at what point did you begin combat flying?

Roscoe Brown:  The Tuskegee experience started in March of 1941. Pearl Harbor was December of 1941. The first class graduated in March of 1942. The length of the training for the average trainee was nine months, so that between the military orientation and your going into the service, it was about a year between the time you first went in and you finally got your wings. I went in, in March of 1943, and I got my wings in March of 1944. I completed my combat transition in July of 1944, and in August of 1944, I was flying combat missions, which I flew until April of 1945.

Clayton Perry:  You eventually became squadron commander of the 100th Fighter Squadron of the 332nd Fighter Group. Could you talk about your rise up the ranks?

Roscoe Brown:  Well, when you start out as a new pilot, you become a “wingman” for a pilot. We flew in groups of four planes. We had a flight leader and a wingman, and an element leader and a wingman. So, you start out as a wingman, and you’re pretty good. You get moved up to element leader and then you get to be flight leader. I was flight leader after about maybe twenty missions. I flew sixty-eight missions. At the end of the war, I was commander of my squadron. Prior to that I was the operations officer for the squadron, which meant I established who was going to fly and where they were going to fly. I led my squadron when we were on the mission to Berlin – which is depicted in Red Tails – and that’s when I shot down the jet over Berlin.

Clayton Perry:  Wow! Were you ever concerned about your plane going down at all? Did you have any close calls?

Roscoe Brown:  Well, in the black press, we got a lot of publicity, and actually in the white press, because there had been very few German jets shot down – particularly over Berlin. We got some recognition in the white press as well. They would call us the “All-Negro Fighter Group,” and among the white bomber pilots, we got a reputation as being the “Red-Tail Angels,” because we stayed so close to the bombers and protected them, which some of the other groups didn’t do. So, we were, in a sense, heroes among the bomber pilots and particularly in the black community.

Clayton Perry:  After you left the Air Force, you went back to school – earning an M.A. and a Ph.D. as well. Talk a little bit about your transition back into civilian life.

Roscoe Brown:  I had the option of going to medical school or working for my Ph.D. I liked the idea of sports medicine, and I did some work for the Air Force on looking at the physiological effects of exercise and fatigue. And because of my background in chemistry, I did a lot of research there. After I got my Ph.D., then I worked to help start the American College of Sports Medicine. After that I got involved in educational research, particularly in testing. My technical specialty is psychometrics, which is the field where you develop tests like the SAT and the College Board and the state assessment exams. That’s what I have done professionally. For a long period of time, I had been a college administrator. I was president of one of the colleges in New York – [Bronx Community College] –for sixteen years, and I have been the director of the Center for Urban Education Policy at the graduate school of City University for about sixteen years. So, I’ve been pretty busy.

Clayton Perry:  When you look at those two worlds – the Armed Forces and academia – how did they go hand in hand? At the same time, why was education so important to you in your personal and professional lives?

Roscoe Brown:  Well, for one thing, many of us who went into the military did not intend to stay. Several did stay and became colonels. Some became generals. So, we went back to civilian life. Some of us became lawyers, some became doctors, some became professors. I had the opportunity to become a professor. I was one of the first black professors at New York University, and I become one of the leaders of the faculty there because of my work. I didn’t really think much about aviation. When I first came back from overseas, I wanted to fly with the airlines for a little bit. I was told that they didn’t hire black pilots, which they didn’t at that time. The only place for pilots was in the Air Force, and I didn’t want to stay in the Air Force. I wanted to develop my career. Our objective as achieving African-Americans was to do so well that it would help other African-American youth to also succeed, and that’s why education has been so important.

Clayton Perry:  You’ve been given so many awards over the years. What are you most proud of when you have people look at your legacy?

Roscoe Brown:  I always tell people I’m most proud of the fact that I had four great children, but beyond that, I’m very proud of the fact that the Tuskegee Airmen were finally, collectively, recognized by Congress with a Congressional Gold Medal for outstanding service to the country. That’s an award that I cherish. The other awards depend upon the context. Some of them are because of my personal achievements, and some of them are because I’ve been involved in various causes to help change the world. I was with the Boys & Girls Clubs of America as a board member for many, many years, and I helped to develop the urban program of the Boys & Girls Clubs which is now the largest youth-centered organization here in the United States.

Clayton Perry:  The Boys & Girls Club honored you with their  Humanitarian Award. What lasting message do you want to leave with young people in particular?

Roscoe Brown:  My message is to strive for excellence, no matter where you are and no matter what the obstacles are, because excellence helps you to overcome the obstacles, it helps you to overcome prejudice, and it helps you to be a more effective citizen in the community. So, my idea is to strive for excellence.

For more information on Red Tails, visit the film’s official website: http://redtails2012.com

Date of Interview: 05/14/2012

Bram van Splunteren is a Dutch filmmaker and journalist. His hip-hop documentary – Big Fun in the Big Town (1986) – captures a series of extraordinary events during an incredible week in New York: Doug E Fresh beatboxing and philosophizing on the street in Harlem, Grandmaster Flash scratching records on his living room table, and LL Cool J discussing love raps at his grandmother’s house in Queens. Twenty-five years after its initial broadcasting on Dutch public television, 5 Day Weekend has made this rare, historical footage commercially available for the very first time.

In support of Big Fun in the Big Town’s worldwide release (DVD: May 22, 2012), Bram van Splunteren spoke with Clayton Perry about his passion for filmmaking, early radio resistance to hip-hop music, and the vital support received from Def Jam publicist Bill Adler.

Clayton Perry:  Big Fun in the Big Town is an extraordinary masterwork – documenting hip-hop’s emergence as an international phenomenon during its infancy. What life events served as key influences in the development of this project?

Bram van Splunteren:  I was a rock journalist writing for Holland’s biggest music magazine, Oor (Ear), before I went to the Amsterdam film school. After film school, in the early eighties, I got offered a radio show where I had a lot of freedom to play my favorite music. While I was still doing radio, I started working in television – producing and directing small music shows. The bands I was getting for those shows were mostly white alternative rock bands – from Nick Cave’s Birthday Party to 80’s cult bands like The Replacements and Husker Du. But in the mid-eighties I discovered rap thanks to one of the first Beastie Boys 12 inches, “She’s On It” [from the soundtrack of 1985 film Krush Groove].  And shortly after that I got an offer to direct 6 music documentaries. Big Fun was the first to be completed and my very first documentary for Dutch national television. In the same year, I did one about Iggy Pop. Both were filmed in the USA. And in the next year, I filmed docs on Nick Cave, John Hiatt, and Liverpool. I also documented The Red Hot Chili Peppers’ first European tour in 1987 as they traveled Europe in a small van. I was the first filmmaker to make a documentary about them and I filmed them on several occasions afterwards.

Clayton Perry:  As a hip-hop fan living in Holland, miles and miles away from New York City, what do you immediately recall about your initial encounter with rap music and hip-hop as a larger culture.

Bram van Splunteren:  I knew “Rapper’s Delight” from the Sugar Hill Gang – and played it on my radio show – but I thought it more a curiosity. The same with “The Breaks” by Kurtis Blow.  The lyrics of Grandmaster Flash’s “The Message” really touched me, but the production and sound of it was still too disco-ish for me to totally get into it. And then came The Beastie Boys. They blew me away from the start. This was before their first album Licensed to Ill. I just loved Rick Rubin’s production and the dry sound of the drums. The same with LL Cool J’s album. And RUN DMC of course I liked too, though Rubin did not produce them. Apart from the music, I knew about graffiti and breakdancing, but going to New York in 1986 for Big Fun was really my first encounter with hip-hop as a culture. I had traveled to New York before, but never been into any of the black neighborhoods like Harlem and the Bronx. And when we finally went there it was pretty scary because we were told white folks don’t go into these neighborhoods, not even in the daytime. I loved the shoot we did at the school in the Bronx, where school kids were just rapping and beat-boxing everywhere, without instruments, and with such high quality. Like the guys that do the “Michael Jackson and his white glove” rap. That’s when I really felt the culture, the whole feel behind it.

Clayton Perry:  At what point did your passion for filmmaking merge with your love of hip-hop?

Bram van Splunteren:  Around the time I was totally crazy about hip-hop and was playing it a lot in my originally rock-oriented radio show. I was met with a lot of resistance when I started playing all this hip-hop – from both listeners and my company. At some point, my boss didn’t allow me to play more than two hip-hop records every hour. In Holland, people weren’t taking hip-hop very seriously – especially in those days. Even the leading Dutch pop magazine was calling it a passing trend: just  a couple of kids talking –not even singing!-over the sound of drum machines and boasting about themselves. So when I got the chance to make a documentary I thought I could maybe convince people to take rap more seriously, by showing them where this music came from culturally, and why rappers were saying the things they were saying. Like how great they were, what kind of big car they drive and how many gold chains they wear around their necks. To say these kind of things was considered totally uncool in the kind alternative white middle class circles in which I was a part.

Clayton Perry:  What insight can you share about the  pre-production process for Big Fun?

Bram van Splunteren:  My radio show had already done several phone interviews with LL Cool J, Run-DMC, Whodini and the Beastie Boys. Those all went through the office of Def Jam Records, the leading hip hop record label of the time. I was always dealing with – and talking to – their publicist Bill Adler. He was very friendly and always helping me out and he knew a lot of people inside and outside the Def Jam stable. So when we started pre-production for the film I immediately contacted him. He was a great help. Without Bill we could not have made this film. We got two weeks from my company to shoot two documentaries at once. One was Big Fun and the other focused on Iggy Pop, which featured a lengthy interview on location in New York, along with a visit to Ann Arbor, where Iggy and the Stooges started out. Later,  back in Holland, we later filmed Iggy Pop live in concert. Since the interview with Iggy Pop only took a few hours, I had extra time for the hip-hop documentary, which is where my heart lied. It was also the film for which I needed the most time, due to the multiple artists and locations we wanted to film. The crew was made up of only four people: camera, sound, the host and myself – directing and producing on the spot. The film was shot on 16 mm film – which was great. In those days, the difference between film and video was quite big. I remember being constantly on the phone with Bill Adler.  I think the question I bothered him with most was: “When can we do LL?” LL Cool J was very busy in those days but I felt I really needed him because he was the biggest star at that moment – along with Run-DMC. In the end, we got RUN DMC and we got LL – both fortunately on location, and not in a hotel or office. I really stressed to Bill Adler that we needed to see as much of New York City as possible. He helped me out with getting the artists in their natural environment. We visited LL at his grandmother’s house in Queens, which became one of the cutest scenes in the film. But we didn’t get the Beastie Boys, who were also on the top of my list. They were constantly gone or recording or whatever.

Clayton Perry:  Now, 25 years later, what you think have been the most drastic changes in music documentary filmmaking?

Bram van Splunteren:  In Holland, making music documentaries has become very difficult. In the old days, the channel I worked for didn’t care about ratings. As a national television station – paid for by the government – they were just focused on making interesting shows and documentaries. They also had funding to make them – on a low budget scale. Nowadays, there is much more pressure to get as many viewers as possible, and music documentaries or other cultural programs generally do not attract large amounts of viewers. Consequently, there is now very little money to make them. The channels want to spend their money on other shows that attract more viewers. I have always concentrated on bands at the beginning of their careers, because it allows me to film with them in interesting locations beyond hotel rooms and record company offices. In the early nineties, for instance, having become good friends with The Red Hot Chili Peppers, I filmed them at home in Los Angeles – right before “Under the Bridge” [from the 1991 studio album Blood Sugar Sex Magik]. After that point, they got so big that recreating that experience was no longer possible. Although I do not make music documentaries anymore, I assume it has not become easier to film bands and follow them closely like I have done with several artists. Now, I have moved onto ‘human interest’ orientated programs, and I do not following music professionally the way I did. I just hear what’s  popular and played on the radio. Of course, I know the big hip-hop names and their most famous tunes, but that’s about it. As a musical form, thanks in part to its crossover and use of pop and R&B, a big international audience has finally come to accept it, because of the use of choruses and melodies that one can sing along to.

Clayton Perry:  Analyzing Big Fun in the Big Town within the context of history, explain the importance of why artists should document their sonic and visual legacy.

Bram van Splunteren:  Hip-hop started as a very controversial art form and evolved into a mainstream billion-dollar business. In a way, it seems quite natural and a normal part in the cycle of life – because things never stay the same. People grow up and get older and develop themselves. And then new generations stand up, discover their own identity and do something different than the generation before them. It is important to record history, so we can learn from the past and examine the things have transformed our lives, our culture, and worldview.

For more information on Bram van Splunteren, visit his official website: http://www.bramvansplunteren.nl